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Just chiming in here with Experience that others might find interesting/useful. I had bought Waves Plugins to the tune of 1200 dollars. To The Month of the 1 year after purchase, they stopped allowing authorizations from the iLok like I had never authorized them (the iLok is fine). If I was a conspiratorial person, I'd, well, you know what I'd think.
But I didn't even update them or make any iLok changes, etc. They just stopped working for me. And did I mention the authorizations in the first place were a BEAR. I've 2 degrees, one in Programming with a 4.0 from NCSU. So I'm not the dull tool in the shed.
But it was a BEAR for me. Can't imagine for others who aren't as tech savvy. So I asked them what it could be. They told me I had to pony up 300 bucks just to talk with them. I ported to another computer, fresh installs, my Original Waves Install disc, not any updates, same iLok which is supposed to be transferable authorizations.
Wouldn't work. Same message. It's either $1200 down the drain or cracks, right? (he says with humour) I can't sell them, as most of you know. I'm stuck having lost loads of money to this Israeli company that is just the pitts on any real help or caring for me as a customer. So, around the same time, I have a problem with my UAD card.
It was thinking it was unseated from it's PCI bus on a daily basis. They said try re-seating it fully, but if I have problems, they'll send me another card. I created a new box, and had different problems, freezes with crazy mosaic screens, but didn't know it was this card until now.
Different behavior, so it fooled me for a while. So now, almost 2 years after purchase, I ask if the offer is still good, now that I can prove it's a problem and always gave me difficulty. They said 'If we have one around, sure'. (they're discontinued is the issue) So I called and they did have one, a new one in the box, and gave me the exchange number. They're honoring their stuff, even after a while.
They're really cool. And, as many of you know, you can transfer these things and get some of your money back if you wanted to sell them. Not a plug-in money pit. A company that cares about their customers? I called complaining about the new one's prices and portability to other OS etc and they answered EVERY single question with answers that showed I was wrong, (I can admit being uninformed) and they were reasonable about it. No attitude, just solutions, answers and extending service to me.
California Company Delivers (for me) I also have an LA-610 which hasn't had a hiccup in 3 years. Nice product. I'm just, as a home studio guy, horrified I blew money on plugins I can't get one iota of help for. And feel quite the opposite about this other company.
I used to wax about Waves Plug-ins all day long when they were working. So it's not like I never gave them their due. As long as they work, and as long as you're willing to pay 25% of their cost yearly for the privilege of getting help, I'm sure they're fine. Not to mention, that as plugins, UAD plugins work with Reaper although there is no collusion between companies.
I've had problems with one of the Waves plugins that corrects vocal pitch (not that I EVER need it though;) I know some of you LOVE the free plugins that come with Reaper. I admit, I haven't tried them out enough.
I'm still prejudiced they're not near as good as Waves were or UAD is. But I'm prepared to be corrected on that one too. I can take it.
Anyways, thought I'd share with y'all. F I was a conspiratorial person, I'd, well, you know what I'd think. But I didn't even update them or make any iLok changes, etc.
They just stopped working for me. And did I mention the authorizations in the first place were a BEAR. I've 2 degrees, one in Programming with a 4.0 from NCSU. So I'm not the dull tool in the shed. But it was a BEAR for me. Can't imagine for others who aren't as tech savvy.
This is more an ilok whinge than a waves whinge, but when i was in protools land i had two separate ilok license transfer problems that took me offline for days. The physical key is solid, but the web-based license tool is a bug-infested pile of crap, and i am very happy to not have to deal with that garbage anymore. So, around the same time, I have a problem with my UAD card. So now, almost 2 years after purchase, I ask if the offer is still good, now that I can prove it's a problem and always gave me difficulty. They said 'If we have one around, sure'. (they're discontinued is the issue) So I called and they did have one, a new one in the box, and gave me the exchange number.
A new UAD-1 in a box.you really lucked out on that one. UA actually stopped making UAD-1 cards a year ago and started selling them off at deep discount after that to clear inventory and focus development on the UAD-2. Glad it all worked out for you in the end.
Cheers, Billy Buck. Well, Having been a programmer, I am well versed in such things. I have definitely used cracks of things. Software I wanted to check full functionality on. Software I needed only 1 non-commercial use of. I've fully paid for a LOT of software that had I been able to check them out before hand, I'd have NEVER bought, and wasn't allowed to return it.
But that said, I build this box to be just for music production. An my fear is that such cracked plugins would overwrite my music files and mess them up, or mess up my system. I know people don't like to talk about this kind of thing on a forum, but I am not afraid to say that if I had the ability to install a Wave's plugin crack of what I already paid for but can't use, I would do it in 1 New York Minute. That's is NOT stealing. And I'd gladly go to court to defend my right to do so!
I can prove I paid for them. But that said, I don't sell my music. It's just a hobby for me. So I wish companies would have a different attitude towards those people like me versus Studios making profit off of cracked versions of their hard work. Man, I'm out of the loop on this one. Found this ditty here at: Effective Here's the part that chaps me raw.
If PACE Interlok actually WORKED, if people were NOT able to copy the software, if pirated versions of Native Gold Bundle WEREN'T distributed free as water on the ‘net, then at LEAST someone at Waves could say, 'it sucked, but it worked.' But it DIDN'T! Within weeks of the commercial release of Native Gold Bundle 3.0, pirated versions of the software were available everywhere!
So all of my pain and suffering was for NOTHING! That's what makes me so unbelievably ANGRY! It was all for NOTHING! The situation is so farcical that the common practice is, 'buy the software, but install the crack.' A large majority of people I know and respect have all done exactly that. They purchased the software, so that they own a license, but they installed the pirated version, and so avoided the copy protection altogether.
You might ask why someone would install the pirated version if they own the license. The answer is that the common wisdom is that the pirated version (which does not contain any traces of PACE Interlok) is more stable, and if you need to reinstall it, you don't have to request a reauthorization from Waves. So in the final analysis it's a wash. PACE Interlok is ineffective at preventing software piracy. This is an interesting question. I a 'crack' really illegal if you own the license for it? And if the cracked version doesn't have the overhead of constantly finding the dongle, or having to reauthorize to migrate, well, case solved there.
If I'm wrong, please inform me. This is an interesting question.
I a 'crack' really illegal if you own the license for it? And if the cracked version doesn't have the overhead of constantly finding the dongle, or having to reauthorize to migrate, well, case solved there. If I'm wrong, please inform me. In the US, yes, it's illegal due to being a DMCA violation.
For example, you buy a music CD that has no copy protection and make 1 copy for backup in case of scratches, etc. That's a perfectly legal exercise of fair use rights.
You buy another music CD, attempt to do the above, but cannot due to copy protection on the CD. You now circumvent those measures to exercise the exact same fair use rights as on the first CD. You have now not pirated the music since you purchased it, but you ARE guilty of violating DMCA (even though you only did it to accomplish something you have the legal right to do), which is a federal offense - purely by exercising your fair use rights. Crazy, right?
Defraud My Dupable Apperception? That's crazy.
Where is MY right? This 'CD' wasn't scratched.
It just stopped playing like it had some planned obsolescence. (I'm not charging that, but the timing was to the point of giving that impression) Well, thanks for answering the strictly legal question. It seems this is an issue of what's legal vs what's right. I can't compete with corporate lobbying power through the government. If it was a brick, there's not argument over how it works, and who owns it. But with Technology, it gets twisted on any end by all parties.
Perhaps relating my experience will be enough, but my experience is that THEIR style of behavior never changes. In the end, you have to somehow accept that there is such evil, but embrace the good companies that are just with you and hope your choice can make a better outcome for others. I have Ivory on iLok and it works fine. I don't mind a company who wants to protect itself. BUT, I think that company, if it offers LIFETIME AUTHORIZATION of a Version, shouldn't charge you to understand why it doesn't work. When you buy a lock with a lifetime guarantee, they don't charge you to replace or fix that lock.
Being charged to 'fix' this 'lifetime authorization' model THEY chose is the problem. It's not the product. It's the authorization model they aren't standing behind.
And since they want to charge me for it, 'lifetime' contractually is meaningless and a lie. This whole discussion is interesting to me. You have to wonder what the actual value of the Waves Plugins is. No offense to the OP but $1200 seems absolutely crazy to me as another home studio dude. I mean, that's half a Taylor. Most of a Martin. A really nice Trumpet.an MIDI controller that most would be jealous of.but you got.1s and 0s for it.
And Waves is only one example of the ridiculous price hike that these companies impose on their products. The amount of programming effort, skill, and time that it takes to make your average VST can't be any different than your average video game. But my video game costs me $60. Now I realize I'm being a bit obtuse because the market for video games is so much larger than the market for VSTs, but I highly DOUBT that the markup on VSTs isn't exponential in that comparison. And as the 'home studio' becomes more and more of a reality, the market will get larger and larger. Who's going to start lowing prices first? Reaper is the one that got it right for a DAW, and I'm pretty sure that the developers are sitting pretty with how much they make on it.
Sure it might not be quite as much as the 'heavy hitters' in the DAW market, but I sincerely believe that Reaper has staying power. It's user base has so much growing potential it's just silly to even compare it to the $400 programs out there. Some of which I already own! I wonder who will be the first to offer VST products of equal value to the professional ones at a reasonable price the way Cockos has done? (Don't get me wrong, I know there are plenty of EXCELLENT VSTs for free out there, but support for them is what makes paying for them worthwhile.). I too have a UAD card and love to hear that they took care of you when things weren't working. They've always given me good service when I have called and worked out all problems.
I also think they make the best line of VST's IMO. I think their biggest issues are they are expensive and you can't demo the product before buying a card. Unfortunately, some of the best stuff uses ILOK and at the moment is a necessary evil I guess.
Autotune, Ivory, Softube CL1b, Soundtoys Echoboy, & URS Channel Strip Pro are ones on my ILOK that I use all the time and are the upper crust of programs. The only Waves thing I own is the Musicians II bundle and since I've never needed support I've never paid WUP and it works fine for the little I use it (about 4 years). I only use one of the programs consistently (Doubler). I once in a while try the Ren comps but never even touch the eq's.
If it's an ILOK issue.I think you should send in your ILOK back to Pace, buy another ILOK through them and have them transfer your licenses to it. You will be without your licenses for a week or so but you'll be able to legally use your programs also. I'm pretty sure that you don't need to pay for Zero Down Time service to get them to do this. ZDT is just for immediate temp licenses while you send in the broken ILOK for replacement.
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Using cracks when you've paid for it does seem bad. BTW, I think Waves capped their WUP to $200 a couple of years ago so at least it's not $300 anymore.just $200.come on that deserves at least a little smile. I can't believe they wouldn't even talk to you without your WUP paid up though.that effin sucks hard. Cam Edit: I actually went online to ILOK and it says that if you own and register 2 ILOKS and have them hooked up to your internet computer at the same time that you can move licenses around for free. If you think it's actually the ILOK, then you don't even have to have any downtime.
You can get another ILOK and get all the licenses to the new one. Your situation is a little different because your 1st ILOK still works.if it didn't then you would have to send it in.